Comments on: Kohl on Agile and Value http://pliantalliance.org/2009/04/02/kohl-on-agile-and-value/ Think. Evaluate. Change. Thu, 09 Apr 2009 13:02:58 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: tbeck http://pliantalliance.org/2009/04/02/kohl-on-agile-and-value/comment-page-1/#comment-1229 tbeck Thu, 02 Apr 2009 20:07:08 +0000 http://pliantalliance.org/?p=98#comment-1229 I'm not sure if the "you" in your last sentence refers to me personally, or the generic "you" the customer. If the former, I already don't use Agile to describe myself and I don't care if what I do follows any particular Agile methodology. I do care about the value my customers get out of the software I build for them. If you were referring to the latter, then the problem there is that there are many who are pushing "Agile" and other buzzwords on unsuspecting clients hoping to get some consulting dollars out of them. We sometimes have to use these buzzwords because those are the words the clients are using (even if they don't really understand what they mean). BTW, your statement "But, if you are “Agile”, you will deliver valuable software to your customer. Period." is not correct based on reality. I agree, that is what the manifesto says, but that's not what some Agilists are doing. They instead are pushing a process on clients that may or may not work for the clients' situation. Those consultants just want to be paid and whether through ignorance or malice are more concerned with selling there wares (i.e. "Agile expertise") then actually helping their client produce valuable software. I’m not sure if the “you” in your last sentence refers to me personally, or the generic “you” the customer. If the former, I already don’t use Agile to describe myself and I don’t care if what I do follows any particular Agile methodology. I do care about the value my customers get out of the software I build for them. If you were referring to the latter, then the problem there is that there are many who are pushing “Agile” and other buzzwords on unsuspecting clients hoping to get some consulting dollars out of them. We sometimes have to use these buzzwords because those are the words the clients are using (even if they don’t really understand what they mean).

BTW, your statement “But, if you are “Agile”, you will deliver valuable software to your customer. Period.” is not correct based on reality. I agree, that is what the manifesto says, but that’s not what some Agilists are doing. They instead are pushing a process on clients that may or may not work for the clients’ situation. Those consultants just want to be paid and whether through ignorance or malice are more concerned with selling there wares (i.e. “Agile expertise”) then actually helping their client produce valuable software.

]]> By: Daniel Wildt http://pliantalliance.org/2009/04/02/kohl-on-agile-and-value/comment-page-1/#comment-1228 Daniel Wildt Thu, 02 Apr 2009 19:02:27 +0000 http://pliantalliance.org/?p=98#comment-1228 If an Agile consultant is not focusing on adding value to a customer, he is not going into the right direction. That's the first principle on the Agile Manifesto (http://www.agilemanifesto.org/principles.html), or if you prefer, it's the first principle from ISO quality principles (http://www.iso.org/iso/iso_catalogue/management_standards/iso_9000_iso_14000/qmp.htm)! Well, I have an idea! In this case you can stop saying you are "Agile" and start saying for instance that you follow ISO quality principles. Would that help you in your life? But, if you are "Agile", you will deliver valuable software to your customer. Period. From the Agile Manifesto: "Our highest priority is to satisfy the customer through early and continuous delivery of valuable software". So, you may be following this. If your coach is not focused on this, fire him! Are you not having a moment to look for a PDCA (Plan-Do-Check-Act) cycle for continuous improvement? All these terms and principles are not new. Nothing in Agile is new. At all! Customer focus is something that comes not from software industry, but if you go back and start learning more about Toyota, there you have it. If you start reading more about Deming, there it is! Now, if you are using Scrum you are helping your customers to have ROI faster. If you are using XP, you are tunning your engineering practices to help along the way. If you look at Lean, you will be focused on waste removal, improving culture mindset of the team, knowledge creation and looking for more profit, that can be read as ROI and also as customer satisfaction. So, I really don't understand why you care about being agile or not. Just drop it and start saying something that you like. No issue! Don't like buzzwords? Don't use them! If an Agile consultant is not focusing on adding value to a customer, he is not going into the right direction. That’s the first principle on the Agile Manifesto (http://www.agilemanifesto.org/principles.html), or if you prefer, it’s the first principle from ISO quality principles (http://www.iso.org/iso/iso_catalogue/management_standards/iso_9000_iso_14000/qmp.htm)!

Well, I have an idea! In this case you can stop saying you are “Agile” and start saying for instance that you follow ISO quality principles. Would that help you in your life?

But, if you are “Agile”, you will deliver valuable software to your customer. Period.

From the Agile Manifesto: “Our highest priority is to satisfy the customer through early and continuous delivery of valuable software”. So, you may be following this.

If your coach is not focused on this, fire him! Are you not having a moment to look for a PDCA (Plan-Do-Check-Act) cycle for continuous improvement?

All these terms and principles are not new. Nothing in Agile is new. At all! Customer focus is something that comes not from software industry, but if you go back and start learning more about Toyota, there you have it. If you start reading more about Deming, there it is!

Now, if you are using Scrum you are helping your customers to have ROI faster. If you are using XP, you are tunning your engineering practices to help along the way. If you look at Lean, you will be focused on waste removal, improving culture mindset of the team, knowledge creation and looking for more profit, that can be read as ROI and also as customer satisfaction.

So, I really don’t understand why you care about being agile or not. Just drop it and start saying something that you like. No issue! Don’t like buzzwords? Don’t use them!

]]> By: Martin Cron http://pliantalliance.org/2009/04/02/kohl-on-agile-and-value/comment-page-1/#comment-1226 Martin Cron Thu, 02 Apr 2009 17:10:17 +0000 http://pliantalliance.org/?p=98#comment-1226 I've been saying this for some time, even as a (gasp) consultant agile-related work. "being agile" is a pointless end-goal. My goal isn't to be agile, my goal is to kick ass .There are ideas, tools and techniques from the agile movement that can help you kick ass more effectively My favorite approach is to take the concepts that are relevant to the particular context (such as tight feedback loops, interpersonal outlook, focus on self-validating systems) and just use them, leaving all of the buzzwords and the baggage behind. I’ve been saying this for some time, even as a (gasp) consultant agile-related work. “being agile” is a pointless end-goal. My goal isn’t to be agile, my goal is to kick ass .There are ideas, tools and techniques from the agile movement that can help you kick ass more effectively

My favorite approach is to take the concepts that are relevant to the particular context (such as tight feedback loops, interpersonal outlook, focus on self-validating systems) and just use them, leaving all of the buzzwords and the baggage behind.

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