Comments on: Crumbling Cathedral? http://pliantalliance.org/2006/12/07/crumbling-cathedral/ Think. Evaluate. Change. Tue, 06 Jan 2009 05:16:16 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7 hourly 1 By: tbeck http://pliantalliance.org/2006/12/07/crumbling-cathedral/comment-page-1/#comment-437 tbeck Fri, 08 Dec 2006 16:20:42 +0000 http://pliantalliance.org/?p=70#comment-437 You are right that Agile dogma can not be reconciled with the Agile Manifesto. But it isn't just the dogma. It is what _some_ people are actually doing and calling it "Agile" that can't be reconciled with the manifesto either. If the manifesto is our measuring stick (and I think it should be) than there are tons of people out there who are doing things that don't measure up but they are calling it "Agile" anyway. So the issue then becomes what those of us who "get it" are going to do about it. There are two options. One, we can abandon the term. Being a natural pessimist and seeing the giant market forces against me, I chose to abandon the term (or attempt to) and coin a new phrase. The second option (and one I would prefer if we could make it happen) is to take back the word "Agile" and push it back towards the manifesto. Clearly there are enough people out there that understand the Agile manifesto and what it stands for that we should be able to take back the word. However, we failed to hold on to the word in the first place, so I'm not sure we have the power to get it back from the money grubbing methodology marketers that now have control. You are right that Agile dogma can not be reconciled with the Agile Manifesto. But it isn’t just the dogma. It is what _some_ people are actually doing and calling it “Agile” that can’t be reconciled with the manifesto either.

If the manifesto is our measuring stick (and I think it should be) than there are tons of people out there who are doing things that don’t measure up but they are calling it “Agile” anyway.

So the issue then becomes what those of us who “get it” are going to do about it. There are two options. One, we can abandon the term. Being a natural pessimist and seeing the giant market forces against me, I chose to abandon the term (or attempt to) and coin a new phrase. The second option (and one I would prefer if we could make it happen) is to take back the word “Agile” and push it back towards the manifesto. Clearly there are enough people out there that understand the Agile manifesto and what it stands for that we should be able to take back the word. However, we failed to hold on to the word in the first place, so I’m not sure we have the power to get it back from the money grubbing methodology marketers that now have control.

]]> By: Jeff Santini http://pliantalliance.org/2006/12/07/crumbling-cathedral/comment-page-1/#comment-435 Jeff Santini Fri, 08 Dec 2006 11:59:45 +0000 http://pliantalliance.org/?p=70#comment-435 My point in the comment above is that any force that tries to push dogma is not Agile. It may use the word, but it has nothing to do with any Agile practices I have been associated with. And I do not understand how it can be reconciled with the Agile Manifesto. I certainly agree that it exists, it simply has no place in an Agile conversation except perhaps, how Agile can be misunderstood. My point in the comment above is that any force that tries to push dogma is not Agile. It may use the word, but it has nothing to do with any Agile practices I have been associated with. And I do not understand how it can be reconciled with the Agile Manifesto. I certainly agree that it exists, it simply has no place in an Agile conversation except perhaps, how Agile can be misunderstood.

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